TL:DR:
In this immersive and impassioned conversation, the GoFish! Collective—François Knuchel, Brett Sadler, Katrin (Kat) Shaw, and Joanna Staniszewska—navigate the deep waters of modern education, unearthing the systemic roots of conformity, control, and creative suppression. Moving between personal stories, historical reflection, social critique, and philosophical vision, the group explores what education has become—and what it might yet be. This episode is not a critique for critique’s sake, but an inquiry into possibility, potential, and the urgent need for transformation.
🎭 Act I: Fear of the Wrong Answer – Where Does It Begin?
François:
We began with a deceptively simple question: what role does control play in education? It’s easy to talk about what we learn, how we learn, even where we learn. But why is there such a strong need to control the learner? Why are we still living within systems that emphasize obedience over curiosity?
Brett:
This really came alive for me during a recent seminar on engagement and culture change. We were discussing resistance to transformation in organizations, and someone said something that struck me deeply: the root of that resistance is fear. But not just any fear—fear learned early on, in the classroom. Fear of being wrong. Of not getting the “right” answer. It’s the legacy of a system that punishes experimentation. And so people stop trying. They self-edit before they speak. They stifle their ideas before they even form. Because somewhere along the line, they were told: “That’s not correct.”
François:
That’s not just anecdotal. That fear is built into how we’ve historically structured education, especially in the Anglo-Saxon model. I’ve experienced different cultural approaches to education, and what stands out in the British tradition is this emphasis on molding individuals to follow instructions, to fit into systems. It’s more about creating compliant participants than expansive thinkers. And unfortunately, this mindset has spread across much of the Western world, now reinforced globally.
🔍 Act II: Training the Mind, Not Nurturing the Soul
Kat:
It’s not only the UK. Germany mirrors much of this too. The system’s function is clear: to produce rule-following individuals. There’s a distinct binary—right versus wrong—with little tolerance for ambiguity. I think this rigidity began, or at least solidified, during the Industrial Revolution. The world needed a workforce—disciplined, uniform, unquestioning. Schools were designed to serve that need, not to awaken potential. It’s bizarre that we still operate under that same framework, even though the nature of work and life has changed dramatically.
Kat (continued):
What’s even more paradoxical is that while the workplace is now evolving, calling for more personalized training and individual capacity-building, we still expect a “one-size-fits-all” approach in education. It’s only when someone hits the workplace that we begin to acknowledge uniqueness. And yet we expect children, some as young as four or five, to conform to a rigid mold. The disconnect is baffling. We praise creativity in adulthood but squash it in childhood. Finland offers an interesting contrast—no private vs. public schools, equitable investment in education, and, importantly, respect for teachers. It seems they understand that education is not about control, but about capacity.
Brett:
Exactly. The Finnish model resonates because it respects developmental timing. Children begin formal education later, around age eight, allowing them to first develop social intelligence, emotional awareness, and their own sense of the world. When they eventually engage with structured learning, they have context—they have meaning. And that’s everything. You can’t teach mathematics to a child who hasn’t yet learned how to be in the world. Otherwise, you’re feeding numbers to a mind that doesn’t yet understand why they matter.
💔 Act III: Schools Without Soul – And What It’s Costing Us
Joanna:
Let’s talk about outcomes. What is the system producing? Because to me, it’s more about production than it is about education. We’re manufacturing anxious, uncertain, deeply disconnected individuals. Depression is now one of the leading causes of disability among youth. In the U.S., studies show that nearly 42% of teenagers report feeling persistently sad or hopeless. This is chronic, this is systemic.
Joanna (continued):
They’re disillusioned. They don’t trust institutions. They feel abandoned by the media, misrepresented by governments. That’s the atmosphere we’ve created—one where young people are desperate for meaning, but offered only more rules, more tests, more “correct” answers. I’ve been a lecturer across multiple universities, teaching marketing and business psychology. And my best “classes”? They didn’t happen in classrooms. They happened on the grass, at the beach, with no PowerPoint—just real conversations. We drank water and listened to each other. That’s when students reconnected to feeling. That’s when they witnessed themselves again.
François:
What you’re describing isn’t just anecdotal—it’s revolutionary. It calls into question the whole premise of teaching. Why are we even teaching in the first place? What if education wasn’t about transferring knowledge but about cultivating inquiry? About creating the conditions in which curiosity can thrive?
🌊 Act IV: Curiosity Lost, Systems Maintained
François:
This isn’t just about industrialization. It’s also about colonialism. The British Empire needed administrators—people who could uphold a singular system across diverse geographies. And so they created schools that produced rule-followers, not thinkers. We’re still trapped in that paradigm, and the damage runs deep. Children begin school curious, alive. But by age six? That curiosity starts to die. And most never fully recover it.
Joanna:
Exactly. In alternative schools—ones that two of my daughters and I attended—we noticed something. These children see and sense more. They’re aware of different dimensions of being. And yet, they feel lost. Not because they’re incapable, but because the system isn’t prepared to meet them there. That’s where the depression comes from. They’re calling out, and there’s silence. It’s like, “Hello, is anyone listening?” They need presence. They need us to hold space for trust, self-belief, and authentic connection.
Kat:
But here’s the tension. Even if we shift education, what happens when students step into a world that hasn’t changed? What if we prepare them for something beautiful, only for them to be absorbed into systems that still demand obedience and efficiency? I want to believe that emergence can change everything—but I’m impatient. I want transformation now.
🌟 Act V: From Scar Tissue to Safe Space
Brett:
Kat, you’re not alone in that impatience. I came out of school scarred. I wasn’t a bad student—I was a curious one. But curiosity was treated as a threat. I was punished for asking “stupid” questions. What kind of system labels curiosity as disruptive? One that prioritizes control over emergence. And when control becomes the foundation, everything else—creativity, initiative, even self-worth—gets sacrificed. The real damage isn’t just to the intellect. It’s to identity. Students graduate having learned how to survive the system, not how to know themselves.
Joanna:
And yet, despite all this, I’m optimistic. I truly believe we can be the source of something different. When we step into spaces with trust, intention, and humanity, something shifts. People begin to feel safe. And when they feel safe, they open up, reconnect. They remember who they are beneath the armor of roles and expectations. It’s about holding space so they can uncover their own.
🌱 Act VI: Beyond Learning – Toward Remembering
Joanna (continued):
If there’s one thing education could offer, it’s this feeling—I matter, I can, I belong. It’s about connection. And once someone feels that, they will search for it for the rest of their lives. That’s what happened to me. One spark, one moment of being seen, and everything changes. That’s what we can give. That’s the role of the new educator—not a dispenser of knowledge, but a mirror of possibility.
Kat:
That’s what I want too. I remember dreaming of being a teacher. So many children dream of becoming firefighters, artists, or healers. No one dreams of being a finance director. There’s something pure in those early desires. Helping people reconnect with those dreams—that’s the heart of it for me. To help them remember who they really are.
Brett:
There’s a story Ken Robinson told about a young boy who dreamed of being a firefighter. His teachers told him he was too bright for that—that he should aim higher. But he followed his dream anyway. Years later, one of those teachers had a house fire. The firefighter who arrived and saved her home? That boy. What more powerful lesson could there be?
🔚 Closing Reflections
François:
This conversation could go on forever. And maybe it should, because the question of how we learn, how we grow, and how we relate to each other is never fully answered. But what I’ve learned today, through all of you, is that education doesn’t start with curricula. It begins with presence. With conversation. With the willingness to unlearn.
Joanna:
And with the belief that something new is possible, because we’re already becoming it.
GoFish! Collective 